Shattering Misconceptions: Are you Married to a Narcissist?

What if labeling your spouse as a narcissist is not the solution to your marital problems, but a symptom of lack of understanding? In today's episode, we're here to shed light on the real definition of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. We'll examine why this term has become a buzzword, often misused and possibly amplified by social media. Intriguingly, we traverse the unexpected link between successful marriages and increased productivity at work – a connection worth exploring for personal and professional growth.

Hold on to the thought of labeling your significant other as a narcissist as we challenge this notion, questioning why we are so quick to brandish this label. We uncover why it's far too common for us to excuse our own behaviors while expecting our partners to meet exceedingly high standards. As we navigate this fascinating discourse, you'll learn how to be the catalyst for positive changes in your relationship. We wrap up with the key to overcoming selfishness in marriage and cultivating a relationship where both partners feel they've hit the jackpot. Join us for this insightful episode that's sure to revolutionize your perspective on relationships and self-improvement.

Thanks so much for your support of the Love Lessons Podcast. Find us on YouTube for in-depth, exclusive, and behind-the-scenes content.

Episode Transcript:

Zakk: 0:00

Is your spouse the most selfish person you've ever met? Do they find every way possible to stick it to you, or are you the problem? Could you use a little grace and forgiveness? On today's show we're looking at a common buzzword narcissist. Are you married to one? We're going to talk about it right now on Love Lessons.

Hey there, and welcome to the show. This is episode number three. Are you married to a narcissist?

Blaire: 1:00

On today's show, we're going to talk about what a narcissist is and isn't, and we're going to learn how to live together in harmony with your better half.

Zakk: 1:09

How many times has somebody came into your office and said I think I'm married to a narcissist?

Blaire: 1:16

Well, let's just say that if I had a dollar for every time that happened, that we would go on a very, very nice vacation.

Zakk: 1:23

Yes, at least three times in the last week, I kid you not, I've heard somebody say something like well, what can you do? They're a narcissist.

Blaire: 1:31

Yeah, like half of the people I talk to probably accuse and or describe someone in their life as being a narcissist.

Zakk: 1:38

So today we're going to break down what a narcissist is and isn’t.

Blaire: 1:43

Yeah, and I get really confused on this, because we don't take other diagnoses mental health disorders and throw those on people. We don't say what are you going to do? She just has borderline personality disorder. You don't even know what that is.

Zakk: 1:55

Right, you have not been reading the DSM five and if you have, what's wrong with you?

Blaire: 2:00

What are you needing to be a diagnosis, if you have, because?

Zakk: 2:03

I don't like reading.

Blaire: 2:04

No, it's not. Yeah, it's not, unless you're trying to go to sleep.

Zakk: 2:07

Right. So I mean, unless you've like forgotten your phone outside and you're in the bathroom and like the only thing you have to read shampoo bottles, the DSM might be a little more interesting.

Blaire: 2:16

And if somebody has a DSM in their bathroom because you forgot your phone, by the way, then I'm going to wonder about the person that you're friends with.

Zakk: 2:22

They're using it for toilet paper.

Blaire: 2:24

Oh, okay, that makes sense.

Zakk: 2:27

For those of you who don't know what the DSM, by the way, is, it's the Diagnostic Statistical Manual. It is what every healthcare provider uses to refer to to make a diagnosis. Fun fact, Fun Speaking of fun facts.

Blaire: 2:41

Oh, here we go. I thought that was convenient. I thought we were going to slide right on by with that one.

Zakk: 2:45

All right, I love fun.

Blaire: 2:46

I know, we all know this.

Zakk: 2:48

Why are you stealing my joy? I'm sorry. Are you being a narcissist right now?

Zakk: 3:05

Here's what this says. According to a study, in 2018, approximately $6 billion in revenue is lost by American businesses every year as a result of decreased worker productivity. Okay, linked directly to marriage hardship. Employees in a happy marriage, in contrast, tend to increase a company's bottom line. So if you own a business and you want to know why your employees aren't doing what they need to do, maybe make sure that everything's all right at home.

Blaire: 3:34

Maybe offer an employee assistance program. Yes, if you don't already have one.

Zakk: 3:38

Yeah, if you don't have one, you can't sponsor revive counseling center Shameless plug. That's right, yeah, but seriously, I mean that makes sense, right? Like how many times have you had a situation where you've been upset at home and you carry that into work with it?

Blaire: 3:54

You can't just most of the time forget that, when this is not Gray's Anatomy, where their personalized are falling apart and then they've got to go, like you know, do brain surgery, Well, I used to work in human resources and I actually saw this quite a bit, where you know an employee would be having performance issues or attendance issues or something and when you'd sit down and talk about them, they'd had some pretty big life things going on, and a lot of that included, like relationship issues, marriage issues. So I can see that.

Zakk: 4:21

So the term narcissist has been widely used to describe not only a laundry list of difficult relatives and regretted exes, but also nominees for president and the entire generation known as the millennials. So is narcissism really so widespread or on the rise in the general population, or is it just a fun word to say Buzzword? That's what I'm going with. I think you're right.

Blaire: 4:47

Your spouse probably most likely is not a narcissist. You're probably just both selfish Oof.

Zakk: 4:55

That's hard to hear, isn't it Very hard to hear? Yeah, and I would even go as far to say that when I have couples who come in and one spouse is accusing the other person of being a narcissist, it's the accuser that actually ends up being more selfish. So take that little nugget if you've been walking around calling your spouse a narcissist.

Blaire: 5:14

Yeah, displaying more of those tendencies.

Zakk: 5:17

Right. So sorry to be offensive, but sometimes the truth hurts.

Blaire: 5:21

Yeah, and we're gonna talk about what that actually looks like, right? Not just throwing that nugget out there and letting you try to open that up and figure it out for yourself, right?

Zakk: 5:29

So the likelihood that you're actually married to a narcissist is incredibly slim, all right. So point five percent, that is, one half of one percent of the US population, meets the criteria to be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder. Wow, so that means not everybody in your neighborhood is a narcissist.

Blaire: 5:54

You mean everyone in our local community. They're not a narcissist. Well, slap me with butter and call me a biscuit, because I thought differently, based on the people I see and talk to. Right.

Zakk: 6:06

How many people come in and tell you their spouse is a narcissist? It's crazy.

Blaire: 6:10

And I think some of that is social media. Right, it's a buzzword. We can throw out what some traits look like and we grab on to these terms that we hear and all of a sudden we're slapping labels on it.

Zakk: 6:22

Yeah, and so we are being influenced by a generation of people on social media, where it is popular to have some kind of mental health disorder. Yes, and I say this as an individual who makes money from treating people with mental health disorder, so I'm not just some rando on the internet. There are people who come into therapy with real issues, and then there are people who come into therapy who just need to learn how to communicate better and to give themselves or their spouse the benefit of the doubt. Yeah, there's a difference.

Blaire: 6:52

Yeah, and there are people who really have issues and there are people who want to have issues because it gets them attention.

Zakk: 6:59

Yes, yes.

Blaire: 7:00

Which could be diagnosed as something right, but it's generally not. It's generally just this need to be validated and see, yeah, which, if they understand what their identity in Christ is, then that resolves a majority of that conflict.

Zakk: 7:13

Exactly, and so what that has to do with this is that we are being influenced by this because it's what we see on social media, and then it becomes part of our common vernacular.

Speaker 4: 7:22

Yes.

Zakk: 7:23

Right Narcissistic personality disorder has been around. The diagnosis has been around since like the 50s, but only in the last five to maybe eight years have people really started using it.

Blaire: 7:34

Yeah, right. So what are the traits of narcissistic personality disorder and why are people thinking that their spouses are narcissists?

Zakk: 7:42

Yeah, so it at its most common core definition an individual with narcissistic personality disorder. They have its two things going on. Number one they have an inflated view of themselves, and so I can already hear and help people listening. Well, yeah, that's my spells, but hear me out, I'm not just talking about their overly self-confident. They think that they are deserving of all of the accolades, all of the awards, all of everything, and I don't mean just in their relationship with you, I mean every single situation that they're in. They believe they deserve to be on top because of who they are, right, right, that's issue number one. But issue number two, interestingly enough, individuals who have narcissistic personality disorder actually have a very low view of themselves. So they have an ego the size of Texas, but they have a self-worth and value view of themselves the size of Rhode Island, and so it's these two things in conflict and so all of these bad things that you might be thinking about this individual. They've already thought about themselves. They hold themselves to an impossible standard, but they try to mask that with that ego, right? So that's like a very, very, very like bird's eye view of what NPD actually is. But a lot of people just assume that. Well, my spouse is selfish. Everybody is selfish, right? We are. We see our spouse doing things because we think they don't care about us, and suddenly they must be a narcissist because they're obsessed with themselves. No, they just never were taught how to look out for the other person, right?

Blaire: 9:16

Or my spouse controls how much money I spend, so they must be a narcissist. Well, how much money do you spend, Right? Or my spouse really cares about the opinions of other people and he's just. He's the big man on campus at work and you know, he's got this big ego. Well, maybe he just struggles with pride and his self-worth and value, Like why does one have to equate quite the other? Why are we putting a label on it? Why are we not trying to figure out what's really going on underneath rather than throwing a diagnosis on it?

Zakk: 9:45

Right, exactly Because all of those things that those folks are experiencing and those examples that you use, they're issues and they need to be dealt with and it's not healthy for your relationship. But that doesn't mean that they have narcissistic personality disorder. Here's a good litmus test If you tell your spouse you want to come to marriage counseling and they show up with you, I can almost guarantee you they're not a narcissist, because people will say well, they're a narcissist because they're going to tell the therapist everything they want to hear and make themselves look good. No, because A any good therapist worth their salt can see right through that BS, absolutely. But B they're not going to put themselves in a position to look bad in front of somebody else anyway. So if your spouse goes with you to marriage counseling, I could almost guarantee I won't give it 100%, but 99.9% say they're probably not a narcissist. Here's another statistic it was like 0.054% of narcissists stay married for longer than six months. They get into a relationship, they're dissatisfied, the other person's dissatisfied, and they go into a series of failed marriages and failed relationships.

Blaire: 10:50

Right, a series of them. Yes, if you have been married more than five minutes, if you've been married for a year, five years, 10 years, anything longer than that, you're probably not married to a narcissist Right.

Zakk: 11:03

So why do you think that we are so quick to jump on this narcissist train?

Blaire: 11:09

My personal opinion is that it validates us in our pain, in our struggle, in our relationship, and because it is a buzzword in today's society and it's something that most people are educated on, because it's part of our common vernacular that I can say I'm married to a narcissist and someone automatically knows what that means, what that person's trying to convey, and then it also gets you a level of understanding or sympathy or whatever you would like from other people when you're like I'm just married to a narcissist. So I also think it's a weapon that's used too to call someone those names. It has such a negative connotation.

Zakk: 11:48

A weapon of control, if you will. Ah, that's good. There was a couple that I saw. It's been a while, but she came in and I think he's a narcissist and he was like. You know I might be.

Blaire: 12:01

You might not be a narcissist. We could, jeff Fox, word of this thing to do Exactly, but it's, it's.

Zakk: 12:10

She was like he's doing this and he's doing this, and I'm like I don't ever pick sides in marriage counseling because there's like there's your side, the other person's side, and then the truth is somewhere in the middle, right, but if you're giving me a laundry list of all the things that they're not doing and I'm hearing how you're berating them and they're like, yeah, I might be no, that person's not, I'm just assist. Maybe you have some unrealistic expectations.

Blaire: 12:32

Right then I'm looking at you.

Zakk: 12:33

Right.

Blaire: 12:34

Going. Hmm, you have a laundry list of what they're doing. How are you contributing to the dysfunction of this relationship at this time? Because everybody has a role, exactly, even if they think they don't I weaken. I can point one out every time.

Zakk: 12:47

Exactly, and so that's part of the problem is that we look at ourselves through these rose colored glasses right yeah, we see ourselves as victims. Or what I really love is when couples will come in and they're like now I'm not saying I'm perfect, but then they do this, this, this and this.

Blaire: 13:03

And then there's a bud Right and it gates everything Exactly.

Zakk: 13:05

There are two buds in a relationship yours and your spouse's.

Blaire: 13:09

Did you just come up with that? No, I use it all the time.

Zakk: 13:12

Makes it really uncomfortable.

Blaire: 13:14

I've never heard you say that.

Zakk: 13:16

It's true, because you can say whatever you wanna say, but as soon as you throw that butt in there, it negates everything after that, right. And so when you are saying my spouse does this and this and this, I really want you to stop and look at yourself. What is it that you're doing to contribute, and how are your behaviors influencing what they're doing? Now, you're not responsible for their behavior. However, if you're both in this negative cycle of right and wrong and fighting and getting into these back and forths, what are you doing that's contributing to what you're viewing as their narcissism?

Blaire: 13:51

Right, and it's also easier for us to make excuses for ourselves while we're trying to hold the other person to a higher standard.

Zakk: 13:58

Absolutely it is, Because how many times can you fail and be like, well, you know, just gotta pick it back up and do it again. But somebody else does it and you're like what is wrong with them? Why do they not know better?

Blaire: 14:08

Yeah, the condemnation. Yeah, it's kind of like we stand in our glass house and throw rocks Exactly.

Zakk: 14:13

Exactly. And you know, what I see a lot of times in counseling is that we as kids see poor parent and poor models of behavior by our parents and we end up just repeating what we've seen from them, right? Nobody ever taught us how to not be selfish in a relationship, and so when we are accusing the other person of doing something and not looking at ourselves, we're just repeating the behavior that we've always seen from our parents. We don't know any better. Our parents never taught us how to. Not the only thing we ever heard from our parents is quit fighting with your sister, quit fighting with your brother. Go outside and play, right. Go share with your toys Okay, you did not because you wanted to, because you had to, right. And so you take these thoughts into marriage. And so we see these kids who have grown up with not really a whole lot of empathy or understanding for what the other person's thinking or feeling, just thinking I have to be right.

Blaire: 15:05

Right, yeah, so it's also important to remember that it's not our default tendency to look out for other people Like we are usually looking out for number one, and the gospel talks about that in so many different places. Jesus did not look out for number one. He died so that we would have forgiveness of sins and that we would be in reconciliation with God and right standing, but we look out for ourselves.

Zakk: 15:31

Yes.

Blaire: 15:32

And that's actually what people are doing whenever they are blaming their spouse or their partner for being a narcissist. They're trying to say they're this, and you know what impact that has on me. They're trying to convey that it has an impact on them. It's not just a statement. There's this underlying story that goes along with the statement. And so maybe your spouse is on a narcissist. They're just looking out for themselves. They're being selfish. But also, where are you being selfish? Like, where can we do some of that self reflection?

Zakk: 16:04

In this sermon on the Mount, jesus said if someone hits you on your cheek, you turn and allow them to hit the other cheek also right Now. That is not saying that you allow your spouse to beat you don't take the scripture out of context. But the point is people are going to mess up and people are going to hurt you. That doesn't mean that we automatically jump to defense, and I had a thought, as you were saying, that it occurs to me that a lot of people might use this terminology of narcissist because they feel like they've been like beating their chest for so long, trying to express that they're unhappy or they're not getting some kind of need met, and they're trying to validate the fact that they're not getting a need met.

Blaire: 16:41

Which is valid, that they have a need, that's going unmet. But getting that need met in another, unhealthy way is not the answer. It's not going to fix it.

Zakk: 16:50

Your negatives don't make a positive.

Blaire: 16:51

Exactly, and it's this label that we use, you know. And again it goes back to mental health and in today's society is like, for example, everyone I know has anxiety, everyone I know and do a lot of people suffer from anxiety. Absolutely, I personally suffer from anxiety. It's been diagnosed right, I didn't diagnose myself, but it's been diagnosed. But I see, even kids today, like our kids, will see their messages I just, I'm just real, I'm having anxiety. Are you have? Do you have anxiety diagnosable anxiety, or are you anxious? There's a difference.

Zakk: 17:28

Because everyone gets anxious.

Blaire: 17:30

Because everyone gets anxious. Now, if it's chronic and it's over a certain thing, then yes, maybe, and if you need intervention, absolutely. But we put this label I must, because I'm experiencing this one time or two times or whatever it may be. It must equal this other thing that I've heard about. We got to put it in this bucket, and so my spouse is selfish or controlling, or has opinions or has an ego, so he must be an narcissist, she must be an narcissist. Well, let's dig into what that actually looks like.

Zakk: 18:00

Like you talked about in episode two, put your thoughts on trial is what I'm experiencing, what I'm feeling really true about the other person, and you know again. We've said it but it's worth saying again your feelings are valid. Yeah, we're not trying to invalidate the fact that you're frustrated with your spouse or that they're being a butthead Right they might be. They might be a great a butthead. Unfortunately, that doesn't meet the criteria for narcissistic personality disorder and butthead's not a diagnosis.

Blaire: 18:25

Yeah, and going online and taking a narcissist, narcissistic personality disorder test? Yes, nope. 10 out of 10. Do not recommend.

Zakk: 18:35

Right, that's zero out of 10. Isn't it Zero out of 10.?

Blaire: 18:37

Don't recommend because, again, rose colored glasses there with the information you're giving it, but you don't know the validity of the test or the assessment, the results or any of that.

Zakk: 18:52

Well, and you know. That's why things like counseling and going to your you know your pastor or whatnot I'm not saying you have to go to counseling for every single issue, but if it's a pastor or a trusted individual who knows how to walk through these things with you, they can offer objective insight and not just side with you so that you can feel right.

Blaire: 19:12

Right, yeah, Absolutely. So stop calling people narcissists. If you think someone really and truly is an artist, just like. Step one is the right for them. Like they if they really and truly are there struggling with a mental health disorder, just like someone with anxiety or depression, you don't tell them somebody with depression to just get over it. And if you do, call me because we need to have a conversation about that, because that's not how that works. And so telling someone with you know that may have NPD to stop acting the way that they are, they cannot help it. So the first step is to pray for them and also pray for your own heart If it's hardened against that. I'm not saying that it's easy to deal with that if somebody does have it, but praying that the Lord's able to give you the strength to be able to endure what that looks like on your life and the effect that it has. So step one's pray.

Zakk: 20:08

Pray and then step two, recognize it's probably not narcissism after all.

Blaire: 20:14

So maybe you encourage them to do some work on themselves. I mean, if they right have this ego that you're talking about, then why wouldn't they want to? We know narcissists don't, but really, though, something to question.

Announcer: 20:28

This episode of the Love Lessons podcast is brought to you by Revive Counseling Center. Revive provides faith-based counseling services to help people find spiritual, emotional and physical wellness, With multiple in-person locations as well as convenient online counseling options. Revive Counseling Center has helped countless marriages and individuals find help and healing, allowing people to create fulfilling and thriving relationships, Living hope and restoring lives. Learn more at ReviveCounseling.org.

Zakk: 21:00

So if you're still with us after you came here for some validation and we told you that you're the problem by being selfish right. How do we learn to not be selfish If we want to see change in our spouse? I always tell people change starts with us, right. It really only takes one person to change a marriage, right.

Blaire: 21:21

Yeah. So if I go out today and get addicted to crack, will that change my marriage?

Zakk: 21:29

Absolutely.

Blaire: 21:30

Absolutely For the worse. Right, we can see all of the issues that may happen with that. And so, in the same context, if you decide to do some work on yourself, in your marriage and yourself, it's going to have a positive impact on your marriage if you're doing some positive work. So kind of think of it from that point of view. We think so many times to accomplish any positive change in our marriage that both parties have to do it, but actually that's not the case.

Zakk: 21:56

Well, and I would argue a lot of times. When people get to this point that they're calling their spouse a narcissist, they are so convinced that that person has to change. They don't need to do any work themselves. The other person needs to do the work because they're the problem.

Blaire: 22:08

And so, as counselors, half of the battle in the beginning is trying to convince somebody that they're not perfect and that they've got their own things they need to work on. And maybe let's focus on your stuff and not what your spouse is doing, because, again, we can't control what your spouse is doing. We can pray for them, we can hope that they will come to whatever realization it is that you want, but maybe that's not the case.

Zakk: 22:29

And if you are so stuck on what they're doing? I've already said this in episode one and episode two, but now here we are in episode three. You're probably being codependent.

Blaire: 22:37

Absolutely. If you cannot get over what they're doing and the impact that it has on your life, there's a level of codependency that's ruling you and you need to do some work on that Now. We will talk about codependency in detail at some point, but what we're saying we're not saying today is that you should not be dependent upon your spouse. We're not saying that because that is not how a relationship works. We are saying that if it becomes unhealthy with how you try to control and handle emotions, that's when somewhere needs to be done.

Zakk: 23:06

Exactly. So how do we stop being selfish? Well, I think it's important that, if you are upset with the other person, stop and consider their perspective Right. What are their needs, what are their emotions, what are they feeling? What's the perspective they have on this situation? How do I seek to understand and not seek to prove that I'm right?

Blaire: 23:29

So, yeah, you always want to try to put your spouse first, which is difficult to do when you're feeling like your own needs are not getting met. But if you were putting them first, then you were doing what scripture says that you're supposed to do as that person's spouse, as they're being married to them.

Zakk: 23:45

And you know I would argue too that a lot of times, if you truly seek to put your spouse first, I'm not talking about trying it once or twice over the course of a week and then getting mad Right, but I'm talking about if you put a concerted effort into that and you make it a process of a few weeks or a few months of always putting them first, they're going to notice that and they're going to start doing that in return.

Blaire: 24:07

It's a witness. It's truly what it is Exactly.

Zakk: 24:10

And there are so many marriages that change because spouses start doing that. And then what happens is that if you are always putting the other person first and the other person's always putting you first, then essentially you're just trying to outdo each other with all the things that you were trying to do for the other person.

Blaire: 24:24

You're both getting your needs met, but you're not having to be the one to meet your own needs, and that's a really beautiful thing. That is what a healthy marriage is supposed to look like.

Zakk: 24:35

Exactly, and so if you are both putting each other first, then you are both going to feel loved and valued.

Blaire: 24:41

Yeah, and so spending quality time together is really going to be important to making you feel loved and valued as a couple. Taking that time together to spend apart from life, work, kids, responsibilities, that quality time dating each other that should never stop. That's something that you should always seek to do. Now, different seasons, you're able to do that more, but maybe you've got babies at home and you can't go out like you did before, but you can still sit at the kitchen table and do a puzzle together after they go to bed and check in. How are you doing? How are you feeling? How are we connected? What's our intimacy look like? Like? How can we be intentional about talking about our relationship and not just living in it day to day, but actually being intentional about living and doing this relationship Exactly?

Zakk: 25:28

You know, I love a good quote.

Blaire: 25:29

And a good fun fact.

Zakk: 25:32

This quote I found the other day and I think sums this up perfectly. It said a great marriage is made when both people think they're getting the better end of the deal.

Blaire: 25:42

Oh, that's good. Yeah, it's true.

Zakk: 25:44

How many times have we really thought in our relationship man, I looked down on the other person right Like people joke, I married up all the time. How often do we really believe yeah?

Blaire: 25:56

That's a march to do there because you married the total package. So I've got to do some work in my thinking.

Zakk: 26:02

Lord, help us all. If you stuck around with us for these first few episodes of Love Lessons, then we hope that you were enjoying and getting value from the content that we are providing, but we cannot do this without your help. We are on a mission to help people and couples find happiness, joy and fulfillment in their relationships, and so, if you have enjoyed the podcast so far, we would love for you to consider supporting us, and you can do that in a few ways. So first, subscribe to our podcast or show wherever you were listening from, either in your favorite podcast app or subscribing on our YouTube channel. Share this show with your friends and family. Facebook and Instagram and TikTok are wonderful mediums for helping us to be able to reach more people. Check us out on those channels and invite others to join us while you're following. And finally, if you're so willing and able, we'd be honored to have your financial support as we take this journey together. Creating a professional show is not cheap. Now we're not here to get rich but your financial support means that we can continue pouring into this product and producing great content to help marriages succeed. Even something as small as five or ten dollars can go a long way, and because we're under the umbrella of a nonprofit, your donation is 100% tax deductible. So if you feel so led, you can donate to us on our website at lovelessons.fm. We've also posted a link in the show notes. But, most importantly, we appreciate your prayers that God will use this show as a means to draw people closer together and closer to heaven. He is the reason that we do what we do. He saved our marriage and we believe he will save others as well. We are truly honored. You are taking this journey with us.

Blaire: 27:52

Love Notes is a portion of our show where we give you a quick tip that you can use in your relationship. This week, this week's Love Note, is that we want you to do weekly check-ins with your partner. Now that might sound daunting, but what we mean by that is take 15 to 30 minutes once a week to sit down and check in with them. Maybe you do it after the kids have gone to bed and after all of the chores and all of the work is done. But sit down and really spend time with them. Be intentional. Ask them how their week's going, what struggles they've had, maybe what successes that they've had, what are their goals for the week, how you can help them, how you can be a better partner to them, how you can foster more intimacy and more time together. Do they feel loved? Are they getting their needs met by you? And maybe this conversation takes longer than 15 or 30 minutes, but try that, and if it doesn't work the first time, don't worry, keep at it. It's like riding a bike.

Zakk: 28:47

So after people go support like share, subscribe, comment and every other way that they can connect with Love Lessons, they need to go check in right.

Blaire: 28:55

After they send carrier pigeons to us, then they can go on their check-in date with each other. That's good. Thank you guys. So much for tuning in to episode three of Love Lessons. We will see you next time.

Announcer: 29:09

Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of the Love Lessons Podcast. If you're enjoying the show, please feel free to rate, subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to your podcasts. That helps others find the show and we greatly appreciate it. Once again, thanks for tuning in and we'll catch you in the next episode.