Confessions of a Marriage Counselor: Heroics of Honest Conversation
Ever wondered why your spouse's quirky habits, once endearing, now light the fuse on daily squabbles? This episode pulls back the curtain on the raw truths of relationships and marriage counseling, sharing insights into why those little things can blow up into big issues. From handling criticism like a pro (yes, we even dissect our own one-star review!) to dealing with the unexpected outcomes of my often too-accurate gift predictions, we unpack the complexities of love and communication that many couples navigate.
Navigating relationships often feels like walking a tightrope blindfolded, and can especially feel daunting when we lack perspective. But we look at some common challenges couples face and offer insight on how to move forward. It's more than just stories; it's about changing perspectives and the art of showing grace for harmony's sake.
Therapy isn't a dirty word; it's a brave space that we dive into, debunking the fears and stigmas associated with seeking professional help. As we peel back the layers of the therapeutic process, we confront the performance some clients feel compelled to give and the unrealistic expectations they often harbor. With a touch of humor, we illustrate how authentic communication and vulnerability pave the way to stronger connections. So grab your headphones, and let us guide you through the dance of maintaining, and sometimes rekindling, that spark in your relationship.
Communication is the lifeline of any relationship, and our discussion touches upon how minor misunderstandings can escalate into significant conflicts. We share strategies for breaking negative cycles and the importance of vulnerability in forging stronger bonds. It's about facing fears, managing egos, and committing to the process of honest dialogue.
In essence, our episode is a guide for couples looking to navigate the tightrope of their relationships, with the wisdom gleaned from our own experiences and professional insights. Whether it's rekindling a spark or maintaining an existing one, our stories and advice aim to help listeners find their footing in the ever-challenging, ever-rewarding dance of love.
The topics we cover are not just for entertainment; they are real-life lessons that have the power to change perspectives and relationships. So, whether you're in the honeymoon phase or decades into a marriage, our podcast provides the tools and understanding needed to dance through the tango of love with grace and resilience.
Episode Transcript
NOTE: Episode transcripts are automatically generated.
Blaire
Host
00:00
Have you ever sat in a counselor's office and thought, once you're what they're thinking right now? Well, today is your lucky day. We are pulling back the curtain. It is Confessions of a Marriage Counselor right now on Love Lessons.
Zakk
Host
00:40
Hey there and welcome to the show. Welcome to all of our supporters and also Lydia. Please, lydia Zach Well so there are some statistics out there that say after a podcast makes it to its 12th episode, they're like 70-something percent likely to succeed. Most fail within three episodes. And then if you make it to like eight episodes, that like you've been out 90% of podcasts, and after you make it to episode 12, then they say you're probably gonna stick with it and this is our 12th episode.
Blaire
Host
01:14
Oh, wow, okay.
Zakk
Host
01:15
And so we have a lot of supporters of Love Lessons. We have a lot of friends, whether it's because they truly enjoy it or they just feel sorry for us, but you know, we've got a bunch of five-star ratings in various places, except for one review that we just received from Lydia.
Blaire
Host
01:32
Oh, what did Lydia say?
Zakk
Host
01:33
Here's here and Lydia's own words. Okay, Lydia gave us a one-star review. Okay. And she says I would give this show zero stars if I could. Ooh edgy, these people don't take anything seriously, and listening to them is like listening to nails on a chalkboard. Just give it up already.
Blaire
Host
01:53
Listen, Lydia's not 100% wrong.
Zakk
Host
01:57
I would say that is the most accurate review that anyone has ever given. Love Lessons.
Blaire
Host
02:01
Yeah, yeah. So thank you, Lydia. She got to know us really well. She got to the heart of it.
Zakk
Host
02:06
In just 12 episodes, yeah, in just 12 episodes. For those of you who do enjoy it, we would love if you would go help get that average rating up a little bit. So go give us some five stars and give us an accurate rating.
Blaire
Host
02:21
I mean, we love five stars, but if you feel like it's a one-star, I'd like to know that.
Zakk
Host
02:26
Tell us that privately. It's a performance review. Yeah, you can tell us that privately. So, lydia, I doubt that you're listening. But if you are girl, I don't know if he got you a vacuum for Christmas or if you're upset or something, but God love you. If you want to keep listening, hopefully we'll teach you something.
Blaire
Host
02:44
Yeah, different strokes for different folks. It's probably my laugh. That's the nails against the chocolate.
Zakk
Host
02:49
I don't know, maybe Lydia should start her own podcast.
Blaire
Host
02:53
Yeah.
Zakk
Host
02:55
I hate lessons. I don't know. Quit. Okay, lydia, jesus loves you. We're trying. Did you enjoy Christmas?
Blaire
Host
03:03
I did that great time. Fun was the head.
Zakk
Host
03:06
It looks like it. There's a problem that I have every Christmas that you always manage to guess what gift you're getting before you actually get the gift. Why do you ruin everything?
Blaire
Host
03:17
Why is this a me problem? Why don't you do better at surprises?
Zakk
Host
03:22
I have tried to surprise you so many times and you always ruin it.
Blaire
Host
03:25
Okay, but let's be honest, this is not just a Christmas issue. This is a present issue.
Zakk
Host
03:30
Yeah, you ruin everything all year.
Blaire
Host
03:33
No, this is a Christmas, a birthday. I love you, president, I have a knack for it and I don't try. I don't try to know or ruin it, it's just this natural gift that I have.
Zakk
Host
03:47
Gift is a strong word, considering you ruin all of them, but it's not just with me. You've done this your entire life.
Blaire
Host
03:52
I have. I actually have to actively not pick up a box, because I have this innate talent about knowing what's in the box. Yeah, like it can feel like clothing and I'll know exactly what clothing item it is, even if I've not asked for it. I don't know.
Zakk
Host
04:07
Are you like prophetic?
Blaire
Host
04:09
I'm not saying that. I am saying the Lord gives gifts to different people and I'm saying mine is knowing a lot of times what my gift is ahead of time. Even I don't want to know. I want to be surprised. That's why I don't pick up boxes or like put any thought into it. That's what I do in my brain Just try to act like it's not coming so that I can like psych myself out to not know, because usually I'll figure it out.
Zakk
Host
04:33
There was one year that you didn't guess what I got you, and it was also the year that I ruined Christmas when you didn't guess what I got you. Do you remember this? No, you don't remember the shoes.
Blaire
Host
04:46
Oh, and the purse. Maybe I don't know that you're talking about the purse.
Zakk
Host
04:51
So what was this like 2018, 2019? We were, I think, at the mall in Nashville, right and one of the malls in Nashville and we walked by one of the stores and you saw some pink converses and you were like, oh, I love these things. And in my head I'm thinking, these things are hideous. They're like Pepto Bismol pink.
Blaire
Host
05:12
They were.
Zakk
Host
05:13
And you like made mention of it. Like you went on and on about it and this was middle of summer and I was like, oh, this is great, I'm totally going to get to these shoes for Christmas. So I had to search high and low. I just like special order them online because I couldn't find them anywhere. It was a whole thing. I got them. And then you also mentioned that you really wanted a Kate Spade purse. Oh yeah, and we walked through the Kate Spade store and you were talking about all the purses and so I bought you a Kate Spade purse and you hated both of those gifts with a passion.
Blaire
Host
05:44
For different reasons, I I to this day do not recall telling you all like to those converse shoes. I'm not calling you a liar. But you're not calling me a truth or anything. I am saying that I am a shopper with my eyes and I am expressive, and so I will like enjoy things in the moment, but that doesn't mean that I want those things.
Zakk
Host
06:07
But this was different because you went on and on about these shoes to the point that I was like shut up about the shoes.
Blaire
Host
06:14
You say that and I don't even remember ever laying eyes on those shoes until I opened them out of that Christmas bag.
Zakk
Host
06:19
The look of disgust on your face was just the second part.
Blaire
Host
06:22
It's where I always guess is them, but I also have no poker face, and so if it's something I don't like, it's evident, and I really try hard.
Zakk
Host
06:31
Even if it's something you do like, you don't really do a great job of expressing. No, you're like I could get you, like real pearls or, like you know, a fountine carry, goal or something. That's true.
Blaire
Host
06:43
You wouldn't want any of those things.
Zakk
Host
06:44
But something that you really, really wanted and you'd be like, oh, that's very nice, thank you.
Blaire
Host
06:50
Yes, that's been that way my entire life. Yeah.
Zakk
Host
06:53
I could buy you a dream house. I could build you your dream house and show it to you and be like this is wonderful. Thank you so much.
Blaire
Host
06:59
I show a lot of joy in my heart, but it's just not something I like. The rest of us don't? I love giving gifts to people. I love them getting excited. Internally. I feel like I'm that excited outwardly, but I recognize now through multiple people telling me that I'm not and I realize that as a child, like they were kind of like do you like it? I was like yeah, and they were like, well, we couldn't you know. They never said that, but I know that they were probably thinking you sure.
Zakk
Host
07:28
Well, that's also translated into other areas of your life, because you have a resting beep face with a lot of people.
Blaire
Host
07:36
It's just my face. Here's what I love.
Zakk
Host
07:38
Very nice I know, here's what I love. Well, that's debatable, not according to Lydia the. What I find really funny is that there have been times that you were like I was trying really hard to be like really attentive and smiley and stuff. Did I do it? And the whole time you're just like glaring at the other person, like I want to pour gasoline on you and set you on fire.
Blaire
Host
08:00
Yes, sometimes Zach will have to text me before you know, social setting me like your face. Yeah, so that I can like try to rearrange it, because it's like I'm thinking of something or I'm concentrating intently and that makes me lose all expression other than anger, and so I have to like watch that when I'm in session.
Zakk
Host
08:17
That's your baseline.
Blaire
Host
08:18
Well, to watch it when I'm in sessions with clients is they're telling me things and I'm processing. I'm like do I look like I'm angry at them right now for this story? They're telling me and I hope that the answers know no one's ever said like you, good girl, but I'm not sure no one's ever called me on it. So if you're caught and you happen to listen to this and I do that, then call me on it. That's funny and really I'm. It's rainbows and butterflies, but outwardly I look like I'm ready to rage.
Zakk
Host
08:45
I had a client one time say you have the most empathetic face, which sounds like kind of a compliment, but I kind of felt like it was an insult. I'm like do I look like I'm on the verge of tears here? I don't know.
Blaire
Host
08:57
I'm gonna need you to put on your empathetic face at times. I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask you to pull that one out.
Zakk
Host
09:02
So if somebody's like pouring their heart out to me or whatnot, I'm not like glaring at them. I try to look, like you know, offer some genuine care in the situation I don't know.
Blaire
Host
09:15
You're not giving them the Blair glare.
Zakk
Host
09:17
No, no, I'm not. That's something that I receive on a regular basis, though In our last episode people saw it when you were glaring at me.
Blaire
Host
09:27
Yeah, how are you gonna put me on blast like that? I even had friends reached out and they were like you, good girl, he did you dirty and I'm like I had friends that reached out, and so that was the greatest thing that I've ever seen.
Zakk
Host
09:40
Somebody even said I wish you guys had your own TV show.
Blaire
Host
09:43
I think that's. That's zero stars, right Like.
Zakk
Host
09:46
Oh no, this is you know, I'm just, I'm putting it out there now. This is just our launching pad.
Blaire
Host
09:51
Is that pathetic?
Zakk
Host
09:52
Is that? No, that's just. That's on my vision board.
Blaire
Host
09:56
Is that your 2024 vision?
Zakk
Host
09:57
board. Yeah, that's it.
Blaire
Host
09:59
Oh man.
Zakk
Host
09:59
Love Lessons TV.
Blaire
Host
10:02
Call us Oprah the Gammon.
Zakk
Host
10:07
Network.
Blaire
Host
10:07
I think we're gonna need a nicer studio set up Maybe right, yeah, we might have to not do episodes from our house.
Zakk
Host
10:14
That. That's probably. Well, you know, post COVID, though that's the cool thing to do. I did see something on on Facebook the other, not the other day it's it could have been three months ago, who knows but it said every celebrity must own a house with a normal looking room so they can do apology videos in. So there was like that Drew Barrymore thing where she tried to go back on the air during the writer strike. We stayed on during the writer strike.
Blaire
Host
10:41
Are we bad people. We wrote all of our content.
Zakk
Host
10:43
Oh, okay, we're not part of the union. No, no, we're not getting paid for this.
Blaire
Host
10:47
No.
Zakk
Host
10:50
It's a good thing we're not getting paid in stars, because we'd get none from Lydia.
Blaire
Host
10:54
No soup free.
Zakk
Host
10:55
Yeah, so she did that apology video. There was one of like I think it was Ashton Kutcher, maybe yeah, and they were doing one.
Blaire
Host
11:05
But did you see where it was actually at?
Zakk
Host
11:07
No.
Blaire
Host
11:07
They had, like this wood barn, look behind them. Yeah, they actually were out in their backyard against a barn in the back, oh yeah bless their hearts.
Zakk
Host
11:16
Yeah, yeah, they have. They have normal people setups just for, just for their apologies, yeah. So if I ever have to do an apology video, I guess I'll be doing it right here on Love Lessons. So I'm not apologizing for last week.
Blaire
Host
11:28
I'm gonna say you owe me an apology, oh no no, that was.
Zakk
Host
11:32
that was a gift to the Love Lessons let's use. You want to hear a fun fact.
Blaire
Host
11:36
Do you have any? Ask you that every time, and every time you do not. You have things, but they're not fun. Last week's was not fun.
Zakk
Host
11:44
Okay, last week's was an exception. It was not fun for you, but for the rest of us we had a great time.
Blaire
Host
11:49
Okay.
Zakk
Host
11:50
I'm still getting texts about this. People love it. Somebody said two of our friends from church uh, decorey and Lamy were went. His name is James, everybody calls him Lamy. They were on their way back from work, about an hour 15 away, and so I guess they couldn't find anything else better to do, so they listened to that episode and and they were giving rave reviews. They think that the treatment that you received was appropriate.
Blaire
Host
12:18
I'll have a talk with their wives about this.
Zakk
Host
12:21
Maybe their wives think that the treatment that you received is appropriate.
Blaire
Host
12:24
That would be on my son, yeah, maybe. Lay it out. Give me the fun fact. Here it is. You're already smiling, so I know it's already going to be some level of crap.
Zakk
Host
12:37
All of Love Lessons is some level of crap.
Blaire
Host
12:40
Zero stars.
Zakk
Host
12:41
Zero stars.
Blaire
Host
12:42
Okay.
Zakk
Host
12:43
A new study finds that nearly half of men think they could safely land a plane in an emergency.
Blaire
Host
12:53
So like no training.
Zakk
Host
12:55
No.
Blaire
Host
12:55
An emergency and they're going to put on like their super safety yes, plane flying man skills yes.
Zakk
Host
13:03
And what's funny is that you asked me about this. So this was a TikTok trend a couple months ago, and it turns out it was a trend because they had started a study or they did, they completed a study. Somebody picked it up and so it was this whole thing. And so you asked me one night yeah, I did, do you remember this? Just out of the blue, you were like hey, so if there was an emergency situation on a plane, the pilot had some kind of issue and you were in the cockpit, if you had nothing but somebody to walk you through it from air traffic control, do you think you could safely land a commercial plane?
Blaire
Host
13:32
And do you remember what your response was?
Zakk
Host
13:33
Yes, without hesitation. I said absolutely I do.
Blaire
Host
13:36
So let me get this straight. You drop a trailer in the middle of the street because you can't haul a trailer, but you can land a plane.
Zakk
Host
13:48
I did not have anything to do with hooking anything up to the plane. I drove the trailer successfully after it was hooked up right. Excuses, it's not excuses.
Blaire
Host
13:57
I wonder if men really and truly think that, or if they just want to believe that they could.
Zakk
Host
14:04
Yeah, I've never been in a situation where I've had to land a commercial airliner. I'm sure it is probably pretty difficult, but I would like to think that I could.
Blaire
Host
14:11
The ego that it takes for a person to think that they could do something that difficult. That's not true at all With no truth Like I just could not imagine. I could not imagine.
Zakk
Host
14:26
You can't even express that you appreciate a gift. Okay, what do you know?
Blaire
Host
14:30
You can't get out of the house on time. Like how are you going to let those two things do not correlate to each other.
Zakk
Host
14:35
The being like yes, the plane will be landed by half the plane, Somebody's going to have to walk me through it. All right, we're going to have to circle the airport a few times, but You're not going to know how to do that. Somebody can say here's where you push the button to get the landing gear to come out. To deploy the landing gear you got to use the real technical, you know, maybe a little joystick throttle thing, and if we I'm just saying I don't want to be on that plane with you.
Blaire
Host
15:05
This is a solo trip you're taking. I don't want to be on it.
Zakk
Host
15:08
There are some YouTube videos out there where they will play, like the air traffic control track, if, like, a student pilot is doing something and there was I don't know how I come across these, but it was so often I do. Maybe it's on TikTok. Anyway, the point is is like there'll be like a student pilot, and there was one where, like the flying instructor had some kind of medical emergency, heart attack or something they passed out and I don't know what it was, and so, like this was the student's first time in the plane.
Blaire
Host
15:38
Oh well.
Zakk
Host
15:40
Behind the wheel, behind the whatever that thing's called. I don't know the technical terms.
Blaire
Host
15:44
You shouldn't if you're going to land a plane. Thank you for walking through it and. They're going to tell you to grab the thing and you're not going to know the technical nerve thing for it.
Zakk
Host
15:51
I can figure out the technical nerve for it. Thank you, anyway. And so this poor girl had to like land the plane, you know, with no help other than air traffic control. Now, granted, you know it was a little, you know, two or four-seater, not a commercial airliner, but still. And then there was another situation where there was a guy who was I think he was on his first solo flight, still in school, and the landing gear broke, and they somebody who recognized us as he was taking off, could see like the front wheel of the landing gear had broke off, and so they had to like walk him through how to land it and that was really impressive.
16:34
And then there was I've seen some where they'll be driving those little commuter planes and like the engine will go out. And that's the thing that gets me like they're just just calm, as like I mean like you're not just going to go and hit the ground, like you're going to go and float, and but they're just like calm and they'll, you know, they'll radio to air traffic control and be like I need to save place to land, lost my engine, I mean, while my hair would be on fire.
Blaire
Host
16:57
Yeah, which is why you cannot land a plane. I just the ego that it takes for men, the pride.
Zakk
Host
17:04
Maybe it's just that men have this innate mechanical ability.
Blaire
Host
17:07
But that's not true, because I know you.
Zakk
Host
17:11
Listen, I can do it. Okay, it might say that the project can take 30 minutes and I've got to take six trips to, you know, advance auto parts and it ends up taking six hours, but I will finish it.
Blaire
Host
17:22
This is one of those areas that we're going to have to agree to disagree. Listen because I disagree that you would be able to do that, or half of men would be able to. I think they think they could, which is what the study says they think they could, but that just goes. That just shows us the state of where we are today in America.
Zakk
Host
17:42
Here's what I know, miss Brosh, retired.
Blaire
Host
17:50
I was 13. You'd leave my little 13 year old self alone.
Zakk
Host
17:53
You were in love.
Blaire
Host
17:57
Yes, I was. I'm not feeling love right now, though this is love lessons.
Zakk
Host
18:03
This is love lessons. So I've noticed a trend over the years when it comes to people coming for marriage counseling. A lot of times they come in and they think that their situation is so earth shattering that they're the only person on the planet that can't be fixed right, Because they're stuck in it and it's so hard to see perspective on that.
18:27
So I've had some people over the years that have been like what do you think? Do you think that we can really make it through this? Are we going to survive? And I'm like you're arguing because you don't agree on how often you mow the lawn, these toppings. Yes, you're going to survive.
Blaire
Host
18:44
Yeah, but we've also seen people that have decided to end relationships on those trivial things. But it's not those trivial things, it was just the icing on the cake.
Zakk
Host
18:55
So pizza toppings are a no-go, but icing on the cake is fine, it's fine, yep, it's what you're hearing.
19:00
No, I think it's important for people to recognize, because so many times we'll have folks come in and it's one of the things that I kind of chuggle at not laughing at people just because it's so interesting that it almost always happens. People will be like I don't know. I don't know if you're going to be able to help us, and I'm like this is the fourth session I've had today where we've talked about this same thing, like this is so common.
Blaire
Host
19:25
And they don't have that perspective like we do. They don't know that. That's part of it and because it is so big in their world and it's taking over and they may have never experienced it before or, if they have before, they know how detrimental it's been they think that it is earth-shattering because it is shaking their foundation. But being somewhere with perspective, we can see on the other side of it okay, like we know what a couple of paths out of this could look like.
19:51
It's different for each couple, but a lot of times there's the same trends and the same processes that you used to get out of the situations that you're in and they just don't have the perspective to always see that. But yeah, this is the worst thing ever and perspective, it's like no, this is the fourth worst thing ever I've had. Today, they're right.
Zakk
Host
20:08
So what do you say to somebody who's thinking about marriage counseling and they're just not sure? They're like you know, I don't even know if we can survive this, I don't know that. Like, is the counselor going to judge me? Or they're thinking that you know I'm an idiot. What do you say to somebody who might be having those thoughts but doesn't really know how to voice them?
Blaire
Host
20:26
So what I would say is I hear counselors not judging you because you likely don't have anything going on that your counselor has never heard or seen before that is worth their judgment. Like they likely are not thinking another thing about this after you've told them other than let's create a path out of this. They're not spending a lot of time in like oh wow, they did this or that. It's almost a detail. You have to have to understand the context of the story but it's so minute that it doesn't really contribute to the overall healing aspect of things. I would say that person probably needs to do some self-reflection of why are they concerned about being judged, why are they concerned with the approval of another person? And if they're so concerned about that, will that have an impact on the therapeutic process? Will they be doing things just to make the counselor happy or will they actually be doing things to make their life or their relationship better? Yeah.
21:20
Which. What's their motive behind that?
Zakk
Host
21:22
Well, I think it probably depends on context to the situation that you're coming in. I could see how someone you know if they've been unfaithful to their spouse and they're trying to work through that they could think, okay, this counselor's going to think that I'm the worst person ever because, you know, I cheated on my husband or wife.
Blaire
Host
21:37
And you know the motive behind that is shame. Yeah. And so when that's the case, then we need to get to the root of the shame and why you made the choices that you made. So, again. You're focused on what you did and the counselors focus on why did you do it and how can we not do that again? Yeah, that's where my brain goes why did you do it and how can we put a roadmap in place to not do it anymore? Yeah.
21:56
So just understand that your counselor's not really concerned about what it is that you did, it's. What can we put in place to not have that behavior occur?
Zakk
Host
22:03
again. You know what I've noticed as a counselor too and I certainly can't speak for all marriage counselors. You know they're kind of like bus drivers there are some good ones out there and some poor ones out there.
Blaire
Host
22:15
That's true for anything, but.
Zakk
Host
22:17
Sure Okay, that's the first thing that came to mind.
Blaire
Host
22:19
It's true for pilots.
Zakk
Host
22:21
You leave my violating skills out of this, thank you. But you know, for me, if I see someone who comes in and you know they've been unfaithful or they've confessed to pornography addiction or something like that, I really have such a heart for those broken people. Yeah, and you know, for me, shame and condemnation is the farthest thing from. What I'm thinking and I think that's probably an accurate statement for 90-something percent of counselors is that there's no judgment there. It's just it's not pity either. I don't pity people. It's just that you know I have such a heart of people who are broken in that way and my heart really does break for you, not in a, you know, pitiful kind of way, but just like I'm so sorry that you're having to experience this, but it's also an honor that you are willing to share this with me. Right, and allow me to kind of walk through the situation with you.
Blaire
Host
23:19
Well, and let's also look at it that you're not coming to counseling because your life is great.
Zakk
Host
23:24
Right.
Blaire
Host
23:24
Like we talk and see people every day who are on you know various levels or different parts of the spectrum with struggles that they're having, but we don't see people that come in and they're like life is great, I don't really need counseling, but wanted to come hang out as their, as first-time clients or as their first session, and so we want to go, come on.
23:44
Oh sure, yeah, no problem. But we already know you're coming for a reason, right? So we already know there's something that we need to work through, there's something we need to tackle. So I'm already prepared for you to tell me some big thing in your life, because that's how we have to do this.
Zakk
Host
24:03
The point of why we're here.
Blaire
Host
24:04
Literally what we're doing through this yeah.
24:07
So what I'll say is that a lot of these situations are difficult, but they're not usually unique. Like we indicated earlier, I've had four of these today. People feel like their situations are unique and there are certainly things about those that are unique to them, but by and large, the trend a lot of times is something that we've seen before or we'll see you know multiple in a day or have similar owner caseloads, and so we don't say that to invalidate your struggles or what you're going through or why you're in counseling, but almost to encourage you that this is a normal thing that people are dealing with. It doesn't mean that it's okay and that you should stay here, but you are not alone in this and or too far gone for something to be done about this.
Zakk
Host
24:52
Something that I like to remind people I tell them in the first session and then I'll usually remind them several times throughout the process is that you are incredibly normal, Like not again, not to your point, not in a diminishing way or to take away from anything that you're experiencing, but that this is, it's common. Whether that's good or bad, you know, infidelity is incredibly common.
Blaire
Host
25:13
Right.
Zakk
Host
25:14
Pornography addiction is incredibly common. Arguing with your spouse is incredibly common, but on the flip side of that, that means that I have some experience in dealing with these things. Right, and so it's not. It's not or shattering news to us. You're not going to come into the office and say you know, I've been unfaithful to my spouse and we, you know I'm broken and I want to find healing and we want to come together and I just don't know how we're going to do it. I'm not sitting there like I don't know how we're going to do it either. Right, what are we going to do? What? Are we going to do?
25:48
Yeah, oh it's. We're going to work through it together and we're going to figure out, you know, how to heal. Yeah.
25:53
So, as an aside, though, you know to a point that we something we said a few minutes ago is that there are it doesn't happen often, but there are a handful of folks that we have that nothing is particularly wrong in their life. They just need a safe place to vent and express themselves. Yes, I've had, you know, a handful of clients over the years who you know they've been. They've owned large businesses, multi-million dollar businesses, or they work in an industry where you know they're under a microscope or whatnot. And I mean I had a client one time that said nothing is particularly wrong in my life, I just need to vent about my job to somebody who can't talk about it to anybody else. Yep, and I'm like great, and in that case I'm on your side all the time. I don't care if you're the wrong or not. I'll agree with you. They are the worst.
Blaire
Host
26:39
Well, and that's why we established goals. You know, in the in the beginning of the counseling process, is what are you hoping to accomplish through this process? Yeah, if you just want to vent and have a safe place to do that, I would say, in that situation you explained, we allow it. I would also allow that in certain situations. If you're just coming into vent and you need to do some work and you're not, that's what I'm going to have to put on my tough hat and say, okay, it's time to do some work. Do you really want to do work and make changes, or do you just want to come in here and have somebody to complain?
Zakk
Host
27:09
to Well, and that's the difference. There's a difference in venting and complaining.
Blaire
Host
27:12
That's true.
Zakk
Host
27:12
You know, if you're in a situation that's high stress and high pressure and you just need to be able to blow off some steam and just say you know, I just get so frustrated when everything is expected of me and there's nothing I can do about it because I'm the owner of this company and you know the buck stops here. There's that versus my employees. Don't ever listen to me and you know I do all these passive, aggressive things and nobody likes it. Those are two of our ear.
Blaire
Host
27:37
Yeah, that's true. So that's true.
Zakk
Host
27:39
So there are a few things, though, I will say, that tend to get, I wouldn't say, frustrating, but I'm like, come on now, when somebody says it or does it in therapy.
Blaire
Host
27:49
Okay.
Zakk
Host
27:49
So let this, let this be a warning or a lesson. I love lessons.
Blaire
Host
27:52
They're all like, oh crap, did I say this right Therapy. Was my therapist judging me? No, but it's like, okay, they're, they're one of those I'm pretty.
Zakk
Host
28:02
Well, I'm not very judgmental, but I'm not. I would like to think I'm not judgmental at all, but I also just kind of tell it like I see it. So if, if you're a client and you hear this, this is not going to be the first time you're hearing it because I've said it to your face, but I get, I do roll my eyes when somebody comes in and they try to be like super edgy and like say something for shock value.
Blaire
Host
28:24
Yeah.
Zakk
Host
28:25
And I'm like and when somebody does that, I will just, I literally do not care, Nice try.
Blaire
Host
28:32
See you say that and then I say something equally as shocking. I drop back to try to like call their bluff on it. It's almost like I'm trying to get attention or trying to see like if I could shake the counselor. Yes, so I'm going to say something that is edgy, unexpected or whatever it is, and it's one thing if you really, and Trillor, are having one of those situations. It's another thing if you're doing it for attention or what are your motives within it.
Zakk
Host
29:03
And we've been doing this long enough that we can discern which is which we know. And I'm someone who I really we kind of joked about this the last session. I really don't have a great poker face and so if you say something that is shocking, like I'll sit in that with you. That's surprising. If you've genuinely been through something really difficult, I'm gonna say wow, that's that really sucks Right, like I'm sorry that you've gone through that. I'm sorry this has been the experience for you, but there's a difference in that. And then coming in and being like I can get any woman I want. I'm this blah, blah, blah and I'm like give it a rest. You were not that impressive. I said this to a client one time Like bro, you're not impressing me. And then we were able to get some work done.
Blaire
Host
29:49
So, or the why do you feel the need to impress me right now? What's going on inside of you that makes you feel the need to need to do that?
Zakk
Host
29:56
That's always fun, it's funny. It's funny because I do that too and you and I approach this as I'm over it. Our voice gets really soft.
Blaire
Host
30:03
Tell me why, yeah, what. What's going on? Being would be yeah. So why did you feel like you needed to share that outlandish story that had no point? Right To this situation? Right, because you wanted to impress me. Guess what? I don't need to be impressed.
Zakk
Host
30:19
I'm good, you're election eyes. Why are you looking at Brad Pitt, whatever? Here's another one. Do not use counseling as an excuse, marriage counseling as an excuse to come in and say I tried everything I could. No, you showed up to one session.
Blaire
Host
30:36
That I have. Yeah, if you really and truly tried and the other party was not willing to do the work Like there are very few times that I can say counseling they did try and it didn't work.
Zakk
Host
30:48
Yeah.
Blaire
Host
30:49
Usually it's that they've already made the decision that they one party at least doesn't want to do this they're ready to leave the relationship.
Zakk
Host
30:57
And they want to blame the counselor.
Blaire
Host
30:58
Want to say I did everything, so that they can kind of take the blame off of themselves, blame the counselor, or say there was nothing to be done to fix this relationship. We did everything we could. Attending or going through the motions is not doing everything that you can. You have to show up in good faith. If you show up to one session, to two sessions like, oh, it didn't work, did everything you could, if you say that to me, I will say back to you no, you didn't, you have failed. I'll push you up the window. You didn't try Like we're going to do that. That's the reason you have no windows in your office. That's why we put you in the little hobbit hole in the back.
Zakk
Host
31:38
No, I don't like to make blanket statements, but I think it's a pretty safe assumption. If you attend four sessions or less, you didn't do everything you could. It takes a couple of sessions just to try to wade through all the stuff that you brought in.
Blaire
Host
31:52
Yeah, and create goals and figure out what you're going to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you expect in four sessions that it's going to be fixed and I think you say this to clients and I'm very clear when we first start like this is not a one and done or a two and done, if that is the case, then you are signing up for fast food and this is a four course meal.
Zakk
Host
32:15
Yeah, yeah, Well, and you know, I tell people you didn't get here to this spot in four weeks, right, Even if you just found out that your spouse cheated, you didn't get there just four weeks. This has been a process and so we're not going to fix it in a handful of sessions. And so don't bust up in my office. You're going to pull out the theatrics and storm out in session one or session two because you don't want to do this anymore and this was all a waste of time. Oh, and I'm like this is OK, we're in a debt.
Blaire
Host
32:54
Next.
Zakk
Host
32:55
Right and so.
Blaire
Host
32:57
You touched on a good thing there. Good point there Fix it. That is another pet peeve that I have and it's something that I have a pet peeve about, but I also recognize that people don't know this, so it's my own thing Is, when they say, here's on my junk, fix it. What are you going to do to fix it? Nothing.
33:18
Nothing, because and we don't understand that it's not our counselor's job to fix it If we've never been to counseling before or if we don't have a right understanding what that process looks like Counseling is a process that is made for you to be able to be aware of what you're feeling, what you're going through, create a plan to help you get out of that. Christian counseling is where it's God in all of that, and your counselor walks alongside you and helps, give you the tools to do so. But we are not brain surgeons. We cannot fix anything. You're not a plumber, you're not a teacher. Like we can't fix anything. All we can do is support and love and encourage.
Zakk
Host
34:04
Well, I would argue that the point of counseling is that you're not going to fix your marriage, you're going to restore it. Restoration is the goal.
Blaire
Host
34:14
Or renovate if it never was what it needed to be.
Zakk
Host
34:19
Establish it off our foundation. I have a former client. He and his wife used to see me I think they both listen to the show now but he used to get so mad at me in session because he would come in. And we did this for a couple of months where he would come in and I have his permission to share this, by the way he would come in and, just like word, bomb it for the first 30 minutes of our 45 minute session and then he would get done. His wife would just be sitting there.
34:48
Like you know, I've got a day's to get confused. And finally he'd say, ok, well, we need to fix this. And every time I'd be like I don't know. Well, what do you mean? What do I need to do to fix this? It's not our job to fix it, it's our job to make this relationship healthy. And then, you know, he came around and he would get so mad at me. And then, finally, one day he came in and he was like, ok, I get it, I'm not going to tell you a story, I'm not asking you to fix anything. Here's what I did long this week. I'm like, yes, you know so, and they have a very successful marriage.
Blaire
Host
35:25
Now you know they're thriving and so Correct perspective on what it should look like. Yeah, I can help you walk through things. I cannot give you all the bottoming.
Zakk
Host
35:37
We can offer a free consultation.
Blaire
Host
35:38
Free consultation, but you do not want to give me the tools to change a brain.
Zakk
Host
35:47
Great.
Blaire
Host
35:48
Not qualified Outside of a scope of practice.
Zakk
Host
35:51
There you go. That's always fun to say, isn't it.
Blaire
Host
35:54
It's outside of my scope, yeah.
Zakk
Host
35:56
So here's one that comes up and I don't see it as much at the office as I used to, but it still does happen Our couples who come in and they get into these knockdown dragouts in session and there are some people who feel so ashamed when that happens, right, and I'm like let's don't do it every session, but I'm like for me as a counselor it's helpful to see that dynamic.
Blaire
Host
36:17
Right Now. If you're doing it every time and we're not making progress, that's we're going to have to discuss it. But sometimes I need to see how a fight starts, how it ends, what your patterns, your negative cycles are, how you interact, what you jump to, what other things you bring in when you throw the kitchen sink into it. If I can see what this looks like when you're at home, then there are times that it's very helpful for me to help you break that cycle.
Zakk
Host
36:45
And there's a couple times, show them what you're doing. There have been times in session where I have a couple that like they come in and either one of them are really talking, they're all prompt a fight just to watch it unfold. And people are not that complex really, and so it's like you can learn over the years like the button suppressed to get people going and I don't do it like in a malicious way, but I need to. You're not telling me anything and I need to see what the issue is here, and so you're right, don't do it every session, because that's not helping.
Blaire
Host
37:11
Well, you're not making any progress, you're just arguing.
Zakk
Host
37:13
You're wasting your time and money.
Blaire
Host
37:14
Yeah, but sometimes it needs to happen yeah.
Zakk
Host
37:17
But it's beneficial sometimes for things to come out, so don't feel ashamed. Like you're going to an individual who has been trained on how to handle emotions and how to help you navigate those, so it's normal that you're going to feel some of those in the session.
Blaire
Host
37:31
Yep, so Emotions, so big.
Zakk
Host
37:36
So big, so complex. That's when we get the feelings wheel out.
Blaire
Host
37:38
Yep, lots of feelings. I would say Most issues that I deal with now. You know I don't deal with anything that's super complex, that sells out of my scope practice, but a lot of those issues I'm gonna start using that whenever you ask me to do something at home. You're getting things outside your scope practice and you hang these curtains.
Zakk
Host
37:57
It's also a muscopic practice.
Blaire
Host
37:58
So listen, I'm gonna educate you, so it's not gonna be.
Zakk
Host
38:00
Feel free to use that with your spouse. Sorry, can't cook dinner.
Blaire
Host
38:03
Tough the muscopic practice Not good at five. I do not do that.
Zakk
Host
38:06
Door dash. Maybe within your scope of practice, though, pizza delivery, that is well within my scope of practice. Yeah, yes landing a plane not in my scope.
Blaire
Host
38:15
I'm glad that you've recognized that. Yes, I'm glad that you put some thought into it and realized that some perspective got some perspective.
Zakk
Host
38:25
So a lot of times, couples get into these patterns where they have what really I think are just kind of silly arguments, but you feel that the conflict feels so big that it feels like it's almost insurmountable, right, yeah, so to. You know, to borrow a phrase from my grandparents, you make a mountain out of a molehill. Yeah, and you know, we've experienced this. We've gotten into some really stupid fights.
Blaire
Host
38:47
Yeah, over the years and it's. Are you disagreeing about the silly thing Sometimes, or is there something bigger underneath? Yeah and sometimes that's the case. You have to really be able to discern what it is, to figure out how you move forward and make a much more repairs than that.
Zakk
Host
39:01
Yeah, and so this is not. This is not to diminish anything that you're feeling or anything that you're going through, but I think that there is value in recognizing that sometimes we just need a little bit of perspective, right, right. So the few years ago there was this, this trend that was really popular online and I get a kick out of it and I giggle every time that I Read them. So no one shares them here, called. That's when the fight started. Mm-hmm right.
39:26
So I have a few examples, and so these are all. Husbands, don't use these as ideas for conversation starters. It's not not gonna end well for you. So so here here here's one. My wife and I were sitting at a table at her high school reunion, and she kept staring at a drunken man swigging his drink as he sat alone at a nearby table. I asked her do you know him? And she said yes, he's my old boyfriend. I understood he took to drinking right after we split up those many years ago, and I hear he hasn't been sober since. Wow, I said. Who would think a person could go on celebrating for that long? And that's when the fight started, don't?
Blaire
Host
40:10
know, ten out of ten, no zero out of ten. Always get that wrong.
Zakk
Host
40:14
Yeah, no, no recommendation. Starts sort of like Lydia's review. Yeah, um, just for the record, we're not really that, but heard about Lydia's review. We're just having a great time with it. I think it's funny. You know, if you want to send some more bad reviews, it's fine. If you want some air time on love lessons, just give us a better.
Blaire
Host
40:31
We'll reinforce negative behavior.
Zakk
Host
40:32
There you go. That's not an encouragement. We want people to listen. My wife sat next to me as I was flipping channels. She said what's on the TV? And I said dust.
Blaire
Host
40:41
That's when the fight starts. When the fight started.
Zakk
Host
40:45
You want to read this last one.
Blaire
Host
40:47
My Haven't read this yet, so I'm reading this cold. Hmm. My wife was standing naked looking in the bedroom mirror. She was not happy with what she saw and she said to me I feel horrible, I look, feel old, fat and ugly. I really need you to pay me a compliment. I replied your eyesight's dang near perfect.
Zakk
Host
41:07
And that's when the fight started. So Don't do it, don't do it.
Blaire
Host
41:15
Yeah, don't, don't pick those low-hanging fruit, but also Don't sweat the small stuff.
Zakk
Host
41:20
Yes, yeah, so there are so many times that even well-mitting conversations can turn into arguments, right? We had a few years ago Well gosh, it's more than a few. The girls were a little it's been over a decade. Yeah, you know, listen, the other day could refer anytime between yesterday and you know when Gorbachev lost power in the USSR. So I Was, he was, that was him, right, right, yeah, you're asking me questions I don't really answer to having a crisis here?
41:55
Russian Mafia again, or was I going? Oh, our argument. We get into a fight one day. We were, we were driving and we got into like an hour-long argument over who would be the better person out of the two of us to die Because, of who would be the better parent to the girls if they had to do it by themselves.
Blaire
Host
42:16
That was probably our dumbest argument.
Zakk
Host
42:17
Yeah, and we were so mad at each other we it got heated it. We stopped talking to each other.
Blaire
Host
42:23
Yeah, we had silent treatment, I think for a little while.
Zakk
Host
42:25
Yeah.
Blaire
Host
42:26
Looking back like that was so silly the dumbest thing that was a hypothetical that we blew out of proportion and he used to hurt each other in that whole.
Zakk
Host
42:35
Yeah, but I mean, you know, there have been situations, and not just in counseling, but just in and within our friend groups and People we go to church with and stuff, where you know people have said like you know, my marriage is in serious trouble now because we got into an argument over something that doesn't even mean anything and we just kept going and going and going and going, and so I think it's just so stinking important to remember, to keep perspective. You know, when you're in a situation and it feels like you're arguing about something silly, yeah, I agree.
43:02
So you know there's. You know people that I've talked to have gotten into fights over like loading the dishwasher, and you know toppings on pizza and and all these silly stuff and it just you need to ask yourself where you're gonna be in five years and if this is gonna matter.
Blaire
Host
43:19
Right, and sometimes it will, yeah, and that's when you need to Dig in to resolve the conflict, yeah.
Zakk
Host
43:27
So what do you recommend to somebody who, if they're in one of these situations where they're just kind of in this, like this cycle with their spouse, where they can't like, they can't get off the bike and it just keeps rolling? How do you, how do you stop this once it started?
Blaire
Host
43:41
I think that you have to step out of the cycle for a bit to try to get some perspective. You have to remove yourself and really put some thoughts into what's happening and what your own motives are. You can, you know, try to look to see what the motives of the other person are, but you don't know what that is. You would just be imputing motive at that point, and so you're just At that point, and so you really need to look at what your own motives are and why you're responding the way that you are, even if it's in response to what they're doing. To figure out why are we doing this or why am I doing this and where do I want to be, what am I wanting to accomplish? And figure out where the road, the roadmap, is, from where point a is to where we want you know the end of the journey to be, and figure out what a communication plan with your spouse would look like, how to communicate.
44:27
Hey, you know this, this hurt my feelings, or I realized that I am bringing dysfunction into our relationship by. You know what I did and I want our in the end goal to be, you know, blank, and so will you work with me on that Can. Can we as a team come together and collaborate and work on being more respectful or Making sure that this does not become bigger than it needs to be, or whatever it is? So perspective, create a goal, be vulnerable and you're and asking your spouse to join you in me yeah, and that in and of itself, that last point can be a huge game changer in a relationship.
Zakk
Host
45:03
Be vulnerable in front of my spouse, I mean, there was a time early on in our marriage where that was just Absolutely not. I would never yeah.
Blaire
Host
45:12
We were able to be funny together and have humor, but when it came to deep feelings or, you know, confessing some of those things that were Bothering us about each other, or traumas that we had been through, yeah, it's crazy Mm-hmm.
Zakk
Host
45:25
So it can. It can be life-changing.
Blaire
Host
45:28
And that is how you create more emotional intimacy in your relationship Is being vulnerable and creating an environment where your spouse can be vulnerable with you.
Zakk
Host
45:35
And if you've never done that, if you've never taken that opportunity to be vulnerable, it can be so scary because you don't know how it's going to be received and it might not be received well the first time, right, so not only do you have to to amp yourself up to get there to be vulnerable, but then also recognizing I may have to do this again after I get shot down right.
Blaire
Host
45:54
So, yeah, don't stop trying because it did not work out well. Once when you rode a bike, you likely Did not get on and know how to do it. You probably fell off a couple of titles, you had some mishaps, and so the same concept Don't stop trying just because the tool does not work one time exactly. Today's love note is a gentle reminder to give your spouse the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes, when the other person messes up, we think that they did it intentionally, just to hurt us or to make us mad. But remember, we're all human here. Show some grace. Kindness is much better received than a reprimand, and you might be surprised to see how that dynamic and your relationship shifts If you take this approach.
Zakk
Host
46:38
So you're saying that I guess I should be kind to you, or whatever gracious and kind.
Blaire
Host
46:44
I'm loving word and not a reprimand.
Zakk
Host
46:45
Yes, I should stop reading your 20 plus year old articles On love lessons?
Blaire
Host
46:51
Yeah, that would be great. But everybody loves it. Everybody loves it, not everybody. You over generalize there.
Zakk
Host
46:58
Okay, everybody but one person. Okay, thank you, thank you. Thank you for even Lydia.
Blaire
Host
47:04
Thank you for that truth.
Zakk
Host
47:06
Okay, I want to find your diary from when you were 13 and just read. Those would be some love lessons.
Blaire
Host
47:11
No one wants that. It doesn't exist, so you don't have to worry about it. It's all in the brain.
Zakk
Host
47:17
Coming up on the next episode of love lessons. All of Blair's inner thoughts from when she was 13 years old, right here for you.
Blaire
Host
47:24
No, bless them. They don't want it.
Zakk
Host
47:27
Okay, we'll come up with something better than that. Okay, thank you guys. So much for tuning in today. Hey, don't forget to submit your dirty laundry questions to us. You can email us at hello at love lessons dot fm, or you can send them over to our facebook page to search for love lessons. And, as always, if you want to remain anonymous, we'll be happy to do that for you. Okay, take care, we'll see you in the next episode. Bye.
Announcer
Announcement
47:50
Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of the love lessons podcast. If you're enjoying the show, please feel free to rate, subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to your podcast. That helps others find the show and we greatly appreciate it. Once again, thanks for tuning in and we'll catch you in the next episode.